Curse

DieInBasra · Jun 11, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

http://gwshack.us/1fb00

So yeah.

Assassin- This guy has an almost 40% chance to crit, so run around with sharpen daggers and hit people till you crit, then switch to the next. When it comes time to spike, Golden-Twisting, which is somewhere near 200 if you count deep wound. I'm hopeing that constantly having Eprod and Boon stripped from their monks and Eles will it more difficult to deal with degen. Orgininal Credit to this build goes to swordfisher, withoutseeing his version of it I would have never made this one. The reason I'm not using Jagged strike is because Sharpen gives DA some sort of a cover, and I'll be critting every 4 seconds at the least, every 2.5 at the most, so it should be spreading it better.

Migraine Mesmer- Use Migraine on someone, cover with Conjure, Use Arcane on someone, Cover with conjure, then spread the IoR love around till Migraine recharges. Energy will be very tight, Migraine and CP eat up your natural regen, and Drain enchant will only give you enough energy to use AC and CP half as often as you could. However, with Ageis and PoF, SoF should be able to fuel IoR and Mantra reasonably well.

Smite -Basicly follow the assassin, smiteing off of him. Cover ZF with holy Veil, to counter diversion as well as protect it from enchant removal.. Try throw and Air of Enchantment the boonprot's way when he needs to use MoR.

IntRanger- Stay off the cripshot unless things get tough, when you'll snare warrior or others while we retreat, or when they're retreating and we don't want them to. Otherwise just spread poison and look for things to interrupt, especially emos. If they try to hide out in the back, run in there for the Distshot, and once you get targeted hit whirling and run back. Mauraders-Savage for a maybe 100 damage spike, when the assassin calls it.

Rest is pretty basic. Necro helps monks and spams hexes, does SS on the spike, healer heals, boon prot prot's, runner runs. Any thoughts? Positive or negitive, I'd like some comments. Migraine Builds have always been my favorite.

kryshnysh · Jun 11, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Who is smiting? I see no smiting?

Why run ether prodigy on a basically pure water ele? As opposed to dual-attunements? Or could you not afford to swap out one one more skill from that bar for the second attunement?

Why not a hard ressurect on the water hex e/mo? Or at all in the build? The mesmer could go Me/Mo with the hard ressurect just as easily.

DieInBasra · Jun 11, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

My bad. Earlier version had a water ele. I can't edit it now because my internets being kinda weird, but it's just a AoE smiter with Scourge.

MAdnRisKy · Jun 15, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

runner has no self heal, would be my first thoughts. Secondly convert hexes on a guy that plays on his own a lot... hmm not so sure about that one.

Also what is on the necro that is so important he can't fit in a res, and that mesmer could certainly use a hard res instead of the sig as mentioned by kryshnysh.

I'm wondering if you couldn't fit in black out on that ranger for when you go for a pseudo spike. Also wouldn't dodge work better than whirling for the role you want whirling to play? would also give some flexibility for relay flag running. (given that all whirling will add is anti melee, and if the warriors are in the back line when you're over extending you're onto a winner anyway - and over extended targets suddenly get not so brittle when you have a smitter, no-one likes to frenzy against that...- dodge would let you actually run back instead of amble).

But i'm being overly critical for the sake of it, its a good build, just seems very wierd not to use any warriors, i think that assasin is in for a rough time but i'd love to see how you get on with it.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jun 15, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Give the mesmer a hard rez and give the necro a rez signet. I would say try to work gaurdian in on the smiter to make full use of air of enchantment. The runner should have a self heal. I just don't like Orision maybe some hex removal or signet of devotion? The Boon Prot and Healer should have mend condition instead of aleigment, but whatever your monks like as long as the smiters spams heal party. On the ranger I would use Blackout and put some into domination instead of maruader's shot, but if you need the damage for a spike it works. With the mesmer I would replace condrom with price of failure and get better energy manegement from your spirit of failure. The N/mo I would have vamp gaze instead of price of failure and shadow of fear instead of faintheartedness because it is only 2 more degen on a warrior. Maybe take out the prot and get parastic bond and a rez signet.

I love that assaisn though.

damocles · Jun 15, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

I would swap out Heal Other on your Healer since you already got a big heal with WoH... I think distortion would be a nice replacement for Heal Other cause it gives you a bit more defense when you are forced to split or when you are adrenaline spiked.

fatboyslimerr · Jun 15, 2006, 09:02 AM // 09:02

I'm gonna offer the following points but you don't have to change your build if you don't to.

The Assassin, if he/she is using twisting fangs, I just think falling spider works soo well with it for -7 degen + deep wound. I know everyone uses golden phoenix, horns of the ox, falling spider and twisting fangs but thats just because its soo good.

I think your mesmer needs lot o' work. I know your using migrane as pressure but migrane really needs to be complemented by continual interrupts. You could either take out spirit of failure or arcane conundrum and replace with some interrupts like power drain and possibly power return. Or use your ranger to do all the interrupting since he has 2 interrupts, in which case your mesmer and your ranger must work closely together.

The rest of the build is alright but I would definitely definitely take dwaynas kiss on your infuser because it recently got a huge buff, making it now an excellent counter to a build similar to yours, which rely on hexes for pressure.

Good otherwise

Patrograd · Jun 15, 2006, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I think your mesmer needs lot o' work. I know your using migrane as pressure but migrane really needs to be complemented by continual interrupts.

In my opinion, the strength of migraine isnt that it makes it easy to use interrupts, it is that it adds degen AND doubles the cast times of spells. Whether you then interrupt those spells is up to you, the doubled cast time is what hurts. I think if you are talking about a tombs migrainer then yes, you want him to be your primary interruptor, but in GvG and in this kind of build I think you are looking at migraine as a highly effective degen tool. if you run migraine/phantasm/remorse then you have a really powerful degen machine who can power his hex spamming through skills like pdrain using migraine to half the effectiveness of counter degen spam skills like heal party.

JR · Jun 15, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Wise man once said: "Using Migraine for easy interrupts is a scrub tactic."

Vermilion Okeanos · Jun 15, 2006, 12:33 PM // 12:33

No offense, but migraine is crap.

In order for a monk to not CoP anything, you must have the monk not have ANY enchantment while also dare not to put on new enchantment himself (all hope is lost if he got a team mate with decent enchantments), that means you need to do something like rend enchantment -> backfire right away. But, if the monk is already backfired, wth you want migraine for? He won't be casting anything (personally, I would risk the 144 dmg just to remove backfire, it is worth it)

Basically, if you want to rely on migraine, you already lost before you start... that is, if you fight a decent group.

While that, migraine don't even garuntee you to be able to interrupt... oh! what's this? The guy keep pressing stone dagger and cancel it right away, oops, you just wasted 4 interrupt with him doing that. Then putting migraine on would just become a guessing game, you might as well just kill the guy instead of using migraine to play mind game.

Honestly, I hope they buff those hexes, or nerf CoP. But, while that, I don't want anything nerf or buff either (when playing as a monk of course). CoP is the reason why you see more energy surger than hex mesemer, no energy = no enchant = no CoP.

Lord Dark Genie · Jun 15, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

No offense, but migraine is crap.

In order for a monk to not CoP anything, you must have the monk not have ANY enchantment while also dare not to put on new enchantment himself (all hope is lost if he got a team mate with decent enchantments), that means you need to do something like rend enchantment -> backfire right away. But, if the monk is already backfired, wth you want migraine for? He won't be casting anything (personally, I would risk the 144 dmg just to remove backfire, it is worth it)

Basically, if you want to rely on migraine, you already lost before you start... that is, if you fight a decent group.

While that, migraine don't even garuntee you to be able to interrupt... oh! what's this? The guy keep pressing stone dagger and cancel it right away, oops, you just wasted 4 interrupt with him doing that. Then putting migraine on would just become a guessing game, you might as well just kill the guy instead of using migraine to play mind game.

Honestly, I hope they buff those hexes, or nerf CoP. But, while that, I don't want anything nerf or buff either (when playing as a monk of course). CoP is the reason why you see more energy surger than hex mesemer, no energy = no enchant = no CoP.

Of course, putting it on a boon prot is going to be a waste if he can CoP it away without any problems...
But it's much more effective on a midline Flash-bot for example. You roughly cut his effectiveness in half, and you don't even need to interrupt him.

And don't forget the degen.

fatboyslimerr · Jun 15, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

You don't need Migrane + Phantasm + IoR unless your running low on illusion, otherwise degen caps at phantasm + IoR. I totally agree with Vermilion Okeanos, migrane is crap because a boon prot can RoF himself then CoP and remove migrane + any cover hex you use. This is why migrane isn't really used in Gvg unless in some hex heavy builds. I would suggest either swapping to a shutdown mesmer with diversion etc, or take a necro using gaze of contempt to remove enchants before a hex spam session.

Patrograd · Jun 15, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Well, you aren't going to migraine a boon prot are you? This isnt tombs.

You are going to migraine, as said, emos, necros, smiters and mesmers, and you dont do it to get interrupts (although it will certainly help any powerdrains you are using to power your degen or your monks are using to power their heals) you do it to slow down their casting and give them degen.

A smiter casting at half speed is a smiter doing half damage, and a migrained heal party spammer instead of healing for something like 10 pips on average is suddenly only healing for something like 6 pips on average and both are if under migraine/phantasm suffering -8 degen from that alone. Yeah, crap skill.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jun 15, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Vindeuxes once said: "Using Migraine for easy interrupts is a scrub tactic."

Fixed that for you

Vindexus · Jun 15, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

I actually quite like this build, the concept seems very strong.

A few quips:

I really like your Migraine mesmer, but I'd definetely put a hard res on him. Defintetely. His attributes should be 10+2 illussion, 12+2+1 inspiration.

I'd put Guardian on your AE smiter somehow. All of those skills are really good, but you can't really run a good AE smiter without Guardian. I'd drop Smite Hex personally, but that is very metagame dependant.

On your Necro drop Spirit Bond for a Res Sig. One thing to consider would be changing to a N/E and bringing Ward Against Melee instead of Aegis. I personally would run 10+2 curses, for the Faintheartedness breakpoint, then 11+2+1 Blood and 9 Prot for aegis, or 10 if you go with WaM. Then rest in Soul Reaping.

Shadow Strike seems like a poor choice on that Necro as well. You aren't really spiking, mostly pressuring with degen, smite and the assassin, so you might not even get the >50% bonus a lot.

On the Ranger use two majors instead of a superior to save 5 health points.

I'd recommend dropping Heal Other on the word monk as well. Maybe for more hex removal if you opt for Guardian instead of Smite Hex.

I'd run a water ele instead of an Air ele because it synergizes more with the smite for splitting. I'd also run more healing on him, maybe a Breeze or Heal Area.

Kuri Kri seems to prefer Spirit Bond over Prot Spirit, but I haven't looked into it that much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Wise man once said: "Using Migraine for easy interrupts is a scrub tactic."

That was me

Divineshadows · Jun 15, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

Shadow Strike seems like a poor choice on that Necro as well. You aren't really spiking, mostly pressuring with degen, smite and the assassin, so you might not even get the >50% bonus a lot.

Agreed. Also, Faintheartedness + Spirit of Failure + Price of Failure seems to have some synergy issues if you get them all stacked on the same target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

On the Ranger use two majors instead of a superior to save 5 health points.

I think a speed boost like dodge or storm chaser would be better than marauder's shot when giving chase to someone attempting to fall back to cast heal party. This would also help this character run flags faster in a pinch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

I'd run a water ele instead of an Air ele because it synergizes more with the smite for splitting. I'd also run more healing on him, maybe a Breeze or Heal Area.

The addition of water hexes would help make the other hexers more effective.

Vindexus · Jun 16, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Yeah, you could even run Blurred on your Water runner, further augmenting Spirit of Failure. If they have Warriors, Assassins or Rangers, that Mesmer shouldn't have any trouble with energy.

Also, you should change your AE smiter's attributes to 12+4 Smite, 11+1 Prot and 6+1 divine. The breakpoint for AE is 12, not 13, so you can afford to heal your assassin a little bit.

DieInBasra · Jun 16, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Yeah, you could even run Blurred on your Water runner, further augmenting Spirit of Failure. If they have Warriors, Assassins or Rangers, that Mesmer shouldn't have any trouble with energy.

I really like the independance an Air ele has, and this build isn't really meant for a real split, at most the air and a monk back home, maybe the ranger as well, but probably not. I know a water would be better in situations where I'm in thier base or they're in mine, but when the runner is going to be doing more running and helping vs basegankers I think air is a stronger choice. If you really believe other wise then I guess I'll fold, but that's what I think. I will give him a self heal though, like someone said.

Quote:

Also, Faintheartedness + Spirit of Failure + Price of Failure seems to have some synergy issues if you get them all stacked on the same target.

I don't really see those as having bad synergy if my aim is to mess with enemy warriors. 50% slower with a 37.5% miss is better then 37.5% miss and my mesmer having more energy.

Quote:

You don't need Migrane + Phantasm + IoR unless your running low on illusion, otherwise degen caps at phantasm + IoR. I totally agree with Vermilion Okeanos, migrane is crap because a boon prot can RoF himself then CoP and remove migrane + any cover hex you use. This is why migrane isn't really used in Gvg unless in some hex heavy builds

If you read the discription, you'd see that IoR is for random spam on random targets, and it's used on people with migraine/AC+CP. Though, maybe I didn't make that clear, so I will now. But yeah, I wasn'tr planning on useing this on BoonProt. 1/4 second to 1/2 a second wouldn't really phase them, I understand.

Here it is now, I'm going to do a bit more work on it. http://gwshack.us/df895

dag_nefzen · Jun 16, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

What about Reckless Haste instead of Faintheartedness on the necro? Removes the synergy issues and increases miss chance.

And what about Malaise instead of Shadow Strike? Would help with the pressure aspect of the build.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jun 16, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Also with Reckless you are more likely to get energy from the failutre combo.